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These people came to Europe to work and got jobs, they had everything in their own hands from there. But many of them didn't even bother to learn the local language.
Life is not that simple. These ppl had lives before having to move. It's not easy at the age of 40 to all of a sudden change so dramatically. If there was a revolution in Canada, and I had to move to South East Asia, I would be an outsider for life.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:25 am
puk
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berzerker wrote:
Quote:
thus you get these ghettos forming full of 'non-natives', and eventually the whole situation erupts like it did in France a few years back. Europe is not Canada/America, well ppl accept you for who you are.
There are more ghetto's in the US than in Europe ...
Apples and orange groves. Those are remnants of America's [brutal] slavery. In Canada, at least, any brown/black/yellow person can call him or herself Canadian.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:30 am
puk
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berzerker wrote:
...But many of them didn't even bother to learn the local language...
That's actually the argument the German girl made when I was talking to her. On the surface, you're right: if someone comes to a new country, they better learn the language. But it completely ignores the struggles someone had to make to get there in the first place.
When we got to Germany in 89, we left a war torn country, and were looking for a place to settle down. The German's literally treated us like criminals. When we came to Canada, we couldn't believe that white ppl wanted to genuinely be nice to us.
You go on the tube in toronto, they have posters urging ppl to help new immigrants fit in. That's how you foster a healthy multicultural society.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:33 am
puk
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berzerker wrote:
If you do not want to learn German, you would be a fool to emigrate to Germany I would think.
I understand where you're coming from, but you have a blinkered view of the problem. These people are emmigrating b/c they have no other choice. And learning a new language is not easy. It takes 10/20 years to learn a language, and master all its subtleties. Until then, you sound like a moron.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:27 am
berzerker
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puk wrote:
Apples and orange groves. Those are remnants of America's [brutal] slavery.
I don't get it. It is all right to put remnants of slavery into ghettos but it is not right to put immigrants in ghettos? Or is there actually no distinction and is my comparison correct?
Last edited by berzerker on Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:32 am
berzerker
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puk wrote:
I understand where you're coming from, but you have a blinkered view of the problem. These people are emmigrating b/c they have no other choice. And learning a new language is not easy. It takes 10/20 years to learn a language, and master all its subtleties. Until then, you sound like a moron.
No one is expected to master a language in a matter of months, or to master a language completely within years. But it is not acceptable if immigrants live in a country for decades and still do not speak a word of the local language. Yet this has been common practice in Europe in the past.
I understand you are talking from the perspective of refugees; I was talking about economic immigrants. These people did choose to come to Europe; no one forced them. The problems with immigrants in Europe do not stem from refugees, but from economic immigrants.
I guess that everyone in Europe, in their heart, support the admission of refugees. Unfortunately there have been so many economic immigrants pretending to be refugees in order to gain access that they spoiled it for the real refugees.
I guess this may begin to explain the lukewarm welcome your family got in Germany. Add the high unemployment rate in Germany at the end of the 80's, the fact that the welfare state they had worked so hard for was under pressure and that they had so many immigrants already, and maybe you will understand those Germans a little.
Canada seems to be a different country altogether. Everyone is an immigrant there. This makes them less inclined to hang on to the securities they built up over a long time (because there are none) and they recognize the situation of these new immigrants. In addition, it has vast amounts of space (compared to Europe, which is much more densely populated).
If you live in an established society, there are only so many strangers this society can absorb. Get a few strangers in and these are interesting, but too many makes you feel like it is no longer your country any more, particularly when these strangers look, speak and dress differently and make no effort whatsoever to integrate.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:32 am
puk
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berzerker wrote:
puk wrote:
Apples and orange groves. Those are remnants of America's [brutal] slavery.
I don't get it. It is all right to put remnants of slavery into ghettos but it is not right to put immigrants in ghettos? ...
I was merely pointing out that blacks in America were brought to America against their will, whereas immigrants come to Europe to try to find a better life for themselves.
I am not saying your point is right or wrong, it's just not a good comparison.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:41 am
puk
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Ya I agree with u when they don't learn a word of the language, that is just plain lazy.
I too believe that immigration should be controlled, as was the case in Canada (not too sure if the NAU has fucked everything up yet). If the population grows too fast, it could put a serious burden on social services.
I also think Canada should consider screening applicants so we get a good cultural mesh. Toronto is good, it has the percentage of each race. Vancouver is a disaster! There are so many chinese ppl in richmond, so many Indian/Pakistani people in East Van and way too many Iranians in North/West Vancouver. This is a recipe for disaster b/c the local population (white or otherwise) is starting to feel the pinch. All these immigrants are super rich (due to Canada's immigration bias), and they buy expensive lands, and shoot up the property value, but the locals don't get a proportional income increase, so they are forced to move out. It's nothing short of financial cleansing.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:12 pm
berzerker
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puk wrote:
I am not saying your point is right or wrong, it's just not a good comparison.
The comparison is fine. You wrote:
Quote:
the local European populations do not allow the immigrants to mix in, and thus you get these ghettos forming full of 'non-natives'
Let's assume that you are right, then how would the situation with the blacks in the US be any different from immigrants in Europe? Both ended up in ghettos. So the outcome was the same. That's comparable (although ghettos in the US were much worse than those anywhere in Western Europe).
Why would it matter how these people got there? The important thing is that these people were different and the other people did not allow them to mix in and put them into ghettos, isn't it?
BTW it is many generations back that blacks were brought to the US against their will.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:28 pm
puk
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berzerker wrote:
The comparison is fine...
Quote:
the local European populations do not allow the immigrants to mix in, and thus you get these ghettos forming full of 'non-natives'
Let's assume that you are right, then how would the situation with the blacks in the US be any different from immigrants in Europe?
b/c the blacks did not immigrate, they were forced to come here. The black ppl did not want to be there. So it would be pointless to say that they are lazy and won't learn the language. It's a completely different situation.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:44 pm
berzerker
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puk wrote:
b/c the blacks did not immigrate, they were forced to come here. The black ppl did not want to be there. So it would be pointless to say that they are lazy and won't learn the language. It's a completely different situation.
No this is not about not learning the language at all, just about not being accepted by others and being forced into ghettos, I thought I made that clear by quoting the relevant texts.
Anyway, let's give this a rest.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:47 pm
puk
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berzerker wrote:
No this is not about not learning the language at all, just about not being accepted by others and being forced into ghettos
Oh in that case, and I had wanted to point this out, you have an even stronger example than mine, b/c the black people were forced out of their homes, now they are being forced into ghettos
It's really a demonstration in our ability to forget history.
Kabobs are okay (ish), but stay away from donars. They have 2000 calories!!!
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:27 pm
Kasrkin
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Joined: Feb 25, 2007
Posts: 193
berzerker wrote:
Kasrkin wrote:
Who have more power, 100 million of chinese peasants or 1 CEO of Exxon? Numbers doesn't matter, power does.
Tell that to the former white apartheid rulers in South-Africa / Rhodesia or to the British colonial powers in India.
England couldn't afford to control India post-WWII because they needed lots of soldiers and money. So they allowed the pseudo-revolution in order to keep control of the relevant corporations (neocolonialism= you only have to own the industry and big companies of a country but leaving the politics to the natives so they think they are free). Gandhi wouldn't achieved a shit if England were strong enough.
And they allowed the end of South Africa apartheid because they kept control of the relevant corporations as well. Now that country is going to fully collapse (one of the highest rates of crime in the world, economy sinking badly, decent people running away, etc...).
You have given 2 examples of numbers supposely being more important than power, but there are thousands of ones in the other way:
The communists and fascists revolutions of 20th century began in countries with populations over several millions, more or less living in very poor conditions (i.e. Russia, China, ...) BUT until a few with enough power decided, people didn't make a shit. That's because human nature is very focused on social behaviour and because of numbers can be easily crushed with superior firepower.
This is why numbers only can TURN THE BALANCE in one or other way, but never achieve anything by itself (until now, when more and more amount of people enough informed and educated is living at the same time like happened recently in Greece (they didn't need leaders because every one know what and how to do), but in the past the masses of people were extremely ignorant and needed someone with enough power to control everything, and when he/they dissapeared, the mass would turn inactive or even themselves again.
berzerker wrote:
Powers have come and gone over time, but somehow this tiny group is supposed to have kept power for over centuries?
They haven't never been such thing as a global power until 1945, in fact in their origins they were kicked from his own country, enslaved by several other nations and so on, but what they have done is overcome all of that and survive parasiting other people, until they finally got a one-time-in-story-chance to become the first power (in 1941) and they succeded.
They are the paradigm of the society the have created: the one more ruthless, more merciless, more treacherous and that knows exactly how to take advantage of others effort in their own benefit, is the most successful and you don't need any kind of morality or identity (in fact they are counterproductive) rather than the fake ones made to get further profit.
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I've said "MUSLIM OIL LOBBY" and not "OPEC"
That's why I asked if it is the same. If it isn't then there must be another organisation of the muslim oil lobby. Which is that, or is that a secret organisation too?
You don't need to gather with your friends in a meeting officially called "Discussion about Jennifer, the hot cheerleader" to speak about Jennifer, don't you? And either make they public EVERY dialogue between EVERY country goverments in the world?
Public conventions and organizations are normally a circus show, pointed to amuse people and giving them the false feeling of something is being made. But History have proved that real and important decisions are always made behind the curtains.
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They seem more "muslim", no?
Yes, the majority is muslim, but AFAIK OPEC decides by uninamous vote, not by majority vote, so any non-muslim member can block any decision.
They don't need a fucking voting to slow down the oil production IN THEIR COUNTRIES or any other decision intended to fuck and lobby the consumer countries.
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Jews have been hated in EVERY country they were, since Rome times.
Any minority group anywhere in the world is in a potentially vulnerable position, and this will materialize in times of depression, civil unrest, or simply dubious leaders looking for a scapegoat. So the mere fact that in a period of 2000 years jews have had their problems with guest countries proves nothing. Every minority anywhere has, but since jews were minorities in so many countries this springs more to the eye. Maybe only gypsies are comparible, and you see the same there.
Jews haven't had "their problems with guest countries", THEY HAVE BEEN FUCKING KICKED FROM THE MAJORITY OF EUROPE. Not a single folk, even the gipsies, have received such strong and unanimous rejection.
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They have ALWAYS been racist. They called the non-jews something like "goyim", that means "cattle", in their idiosyncrasy "non-jew" is equal to "stupid" and "easy to manipulate". Their traditional texts, including the Torah, are full of hate to the non jews.
Well, jewism as a religion is no different in this respect than other religions. This subscribes that religions are to be avoided but it does not constitute racism in itself I would think.
It fucking does because jewish race and jewish religion have been almost the same. Furthermore, nowadays "judaism" practically isn't anymore a religion but a cultural and identity tradition of certain folk.
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Europe was richer than Africa back in 18-19th century and very few niggers dared to immigrate in that time... know why? BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T ALLOWED. What changed in post World War II? THEY WERE ALLOWED.
Many things changed. Just a few that come up:
1. the world had simply become less racist (apart from the US and South Africa I guess). A black man would not have stood a chance of achieving anything anywhere in Europe before; this changed somewhere around WWII;
2. colonial powers withdrew from Africa and were replaced by corrupt local leaders (hence people there became even more disillisioned and poor);
3. mass media (TV) became more wide spread (showing poor people in Africa how different life in Europe was);
4. means of swift mass transport became more widespread.
5. population grew rapidly.
Very good Sherlock, and all of that have been changed in the best interest of jews.
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:48 pm
puk
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Fuck I'm so wasted
just...what did I do...there was one girl, then another. Then I stayed behind for the third girl. I think all three of them were...Mikail...Kylie...Kaili...I think it was Kaili
I'll keep u guys posted =P
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:56 pm
Kasrkin
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Joined: Feb 25, 2007
Posts: 193
captnPugwash_halabalobale wrote:
berzerker wrote:
In addition, both the US and Canada are much pickier who to allow (Europe allowed basically everyone back then)
in Sweden if your not of Swedish origin you cannot become a citizen. that will hold true for your kids who where born there for the next 3 generations. Canada is the most easiest to migrate to.
That's a fallacy, Sweden have near 20% of foreign population. It doesn't matter if you are or not a "citizen" if you can live, work and benefit from the social security system. Probably the only difference is that you can't vote, but it fucking doesn't a shit so is the same.
captnPugwash_halabalobale wrote:
Kasrkin wrote:
Suislide, don't look at this message or you will faint because of the amount of letters.
his reviews have lots of letters, so why the fuck should he faint reading yours? unless of course its probably marinated with dog shit that could make a person faint.
He is always complaining about me writing too long replies he isn't going to read.
puk wrote:
You go on the tube in toronto, they have posters urging ppl to help new immigrants fit in. That's how you foster a healthy multicultural society.
Here in Spain, there are posters in the subway urging immigrants to get the hell out LoL don't take it wrong, the spanish goverment in the last 10 years have been one of the most permissive with immigration in the world (near 9 million foreigns entered in 10 years, above previous 40 million spanish, in a fully door opened policy "we don't ask you for a single piece of paper") and they still are, but because of that, now with unemployment skyrocketing it's fucking evident there are way too many of them to cover it with multicultural propaganda.
You go on the tube in toronto, they have posters urging ppl to help new immigrants fit in. That's how you foster a healthy multicultural society.
Here in Spain, there are posters in the subway urging immigrants to get the hell out LoL
That would be *illegal* immigrants in Spain (as opposed to refugees in Canada that have been allowed into the country) I suppose?
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:22 am
berzerker
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puk wrote:
Fuck I'm so wasted
just...what did I do...there was one girl, then another. Then I stayed behind for the third girl. I think all three of them were...Mikail...Kylie...Kaili...I think it was Kaili
I'll keep u guys posted =P
Yes please, we love to read such posts, particularly when they are posted in a completely random topic in the wrong forum.
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:31 am
puk
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Kasrkin wrote:
That's a fallacy, Sweden have near 20% of foreign population. It doesn't matter if you are or not a "citizen" if you can live, work and benefit from the social security system. Probably the only difference is that you can't vote, but it fucking doesn't a shit so is the same.
I don't know about Sweden immigration issues, but they too do not get along with the huge Turkish population. I was visiting my friend in Stockholm, and we went to a park just jam packed with brown people smoking hookas (must have been some celebration) and the poor guy almost got a panic attack. The Swedes are really scared of the immigrants...it's strange
Kasrkin wrote:
Here in Spain, there are posters in the subway urging immigrants to get the hell out LoL
Dude that's hilarious. Uncle Sam with a caption reading
"I want YOU
to get the fuck out"
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